smuggymba
09-24 12:15 PM
Hi guys,
My wife's F-1 stamping visa got rejected (IInd time)in India, though she had H-4 to F-1 approved here in US by USCIS.
We really want the OPT option that F-1 gives.
Once she is back to US on H-4, is there any way that we can get the OPT since she has been maintaining her full time intl. status?
Can we do a lawyer since the embassy is "wrong" in denying the visa since USCIS already approved it and she has only one sem. remaining.
We are very worried. Please help.
best regards,
Rajesh
For this exact reason my wife did not travel for stamping of F1 even though she had H4 to F1 COS. When you had approval notice, no need to travel unless it's an emergency or really required.
My wife's F-1 stamping visa got rejected (IInd time)in India, though she had H-4 to F-1 approved here in US by USCIS.
We really want the OPT option that F-1 gives.
Once she is back to US on H-4, is there any way that we can get the OPT since she has been maintaining her full time intl. status?
Can we do a lawyer since the embassy is "wrong" in denying the visa since USCIS already approved it and she has only one sem. remaining.
We are very worried. Please help.
best regards,
Rajesh
For this exact reason my wife did not travel for stamping of F1 even though she had H4 to F1 COS. When you had approval notice, no need to travel unless it's an emergency or really required.
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gc_dedo
09-15 03:34 PM
EB3 I-140 is still March 30th, 2007, a whole year behind EB2. EB2 jumped from July 2007 to March 13th, 2008 UNBELIEVABLE :confused: Seems like they just want us to blow our brains out, or whatever little is left of it anyway... This is just so sick.
Just doesnt make sense at all.
Even EB1 is way behind EB2.
Maybe they are being sadist and trying to divide n rule.
Just doesnt make sense at all.
Even EB1 is way behind EB2.
Maybe they are being sadist and trying to divide n rule.
go_guy123
08-23 06:02 PM
I lost the hope of GC after working 10 years in US because my GC is not approving.
Is it possible to file case against my employer and ask to return money that they deduct from me for GC and the % that they earned from me in last 8 years. I joined my employer for smooth GC process but even my I140 is not approved. My labor went to backlog. Once labor approved than I140 is pending for last 30 months. USCIS is trying to find out that my company is legitimate or not.
Do not argue how I know that I140 is pending because of company. Please let what is process to inform USCIS about my employer. My company files GC so that no one should leave the company. Employer gives hope about GC but I140 never approves. What all evidence I have to collect so that I can prove against my employer. Please suggest.
One needs to have a realistic dream. One needs to verify with facts. Companies often lie
of golden opportunities of GC sponsorship etc to get people at low rates. Even lawyers
promise sun and the moon to sign you up but they hide the reality.
I know companies even lie that project is 6 months and renewable but once you join
and shift to the new place and then after 2 months they say the project is over. They
knew all along that the project is for 2 months but they wanted people, so they lie
that the project is long.
I know right in 2007, one friend of mine was negotiating a lower salary in return of GC sponsorship. But by 2007, the retrogression was far too apparent. Clearly he was totally ignorant. Even then he joined. Few months back another friend of mine was filing for
EB3 - India. I informed him about the reality and thankfully he didnt apply and lose
another 10K.
Is it possible to file case against my employer and ask to return money that they deduct from me for GC and the % that they earned from me in last 8 years. I joined my employer for smooth GC process but even my I140 is not approved. My labor went to backlog. Once labor approved than I140 is pending for last 30 months. USCIS is trying to find out that my company is legitimate or not.
Do not argue how I know that I140 is pending because of company. Please let what is process to inform USCIS about my employer. My company files GC so that no one should leave the company. Employer gives hope about GC but I140 never approves. What all evidence I have to collect so that I can prove against my employer. Please suggest.
One needs to have a realistic dream. One needs to verify with facts. Companies often lie
of golden opportunities of GC sponsorship etc to get people at low rates. Even lawyers
promise sun and the moon to sign you up but they hide the reality.
I know companies even lie that project is 6 months and renewable but once you join
and shift to the new place and then after 2 months they say the project is over. They
knew all along that the project is for 2 months but they wanted people, so they lie
that the project is long.
I know right in 2007, one friend of mine was negotiating a lower salary in return of GC sponsorship. But by 2007, the retrogression was far too apparent. Clearly he was totally ignorant. Even then he joined. Few months back another friend of mine was filing for
EB3 - India. I informed him about the reality and thankfully he didnt apply and lose
another 10K.
2011 Disney Pixar Cars
ddeka
09-17 10:36 AM
When AP is approved, you get 3 copies. I went twice on intl trips and each time they took a copy. I am left with 1 copy of the AP.
Now I need to go on one last intl trip (I have applied for renewal). I just have one copy of AP with me.
How does it work? Will the officer just stamp the AP and make a copy?
Don't give original copy. Let them make a copy of the original.
Now I need to go on one last intl trip (I have applied for renewal). I just have one copy of AP with me.
How does it work? Will the officer just stamp the AP and make a copy?
Don't give original copy. Let them make a copy of the original.
more...
kaisersose
10-15 03:04 PM
If you have two jobs on hand, and your sponsoring employer keeps the offer for the future job open, then you can simply use your EAD for both jobs. What would you need the H1B for unless you have reasons to believe the I-485 will be denied?
If you wish to change employers, i.e. no longer take up the job with the employer who did your labor cert, then wait for 180 days after the receipt date of your I-485, find a " same or similar" job and use AC21 portability. - The AC21 law is kind of complex, most use the services of a (competent) lawyer.
A top attorney's fee for sending an AC21 letter to the USCIS is $3000. I assume all competent lawyers would be priced similarly.
But he also adds it is not necessary to use his services for Ac21, if the case is simple and straightforward. If you feel there are some twists or ambiguities in your case, then it is best to pony up the dough and have a lawyer send the letter instead of you.
If you wish to change employers, i.e. no longer take up the job with the employer who did your labor cert, then wait for 180 days after the receipt date of your I-485, find a " same or similar" job and use AC21 portability. - The AC21 law is kind of complex, most use the services of a (competent) lawyer.
A top attorney's fee for sending an AC21 letter to the USCIS is $3000. I assume all competent lawyers would be priced similarly.
But he also adds it is not necessary to use his services for Ac21, if the case is simple and straightforward. If you feel there are some twists or ambiguities in your case, then it is best to pony up the dough and have a lawyer send the letter instead of you.
Pagal
09-19 11:21 AM
Hello,
Sorry to read your experience ... not to rationalize the conduct of the rude employee, but they are also just human beings who have family, financial worries/problems and not all of them like their jobs either ...
Having said that, there is no reason for you to accept the rude behavior of anyone ... you are asking for a visa, not begging for it! Here are somethings that you can do ...
1. Email to the Consul General to file a complaint (provide as many details as possible, e.g. time of interview, window number, sequence of interactions, specific parts that you found offending and unreasonable). Here are the contact details (http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/contact-us.html).
2. Write a letter to Consul General with copy to US ambassador, the Ombudsman of state department and Secretary of State. Here is the online form (http://contact-us.state.gov/cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=qk*MUpak&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD05NCw5NCZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnB fY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmc F9wYWdlPTE!) (and on left side, there are phone numbers and addresses).
Always remember that you are a free citizen of a free country who is working in US because there exists documented need for your skills in US.
Good luck and I hope your visa is granted in due time ...
Sorry to read your experience ... not to rationalize the conduct of the rude employee, but they are also just human beings who have family, financial worries/problems and not all of them like their jobs either ...
Having said that, there is no reason for you to accept the rude behavior of anyone ... you are asking for a visa, not begging for it! Here are somethings that you can do ...
1. Email to the Consul General to file a complaint (provide as many details as possible, e.g. time of interview, window number, sequence of interactions, specific parts that you found offending and unreasonable). Here are the contact details (http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/contact-us.html).
2. Write a letter to Consul General with copy to US ambassador, the Ombudsman of state department and Secretary of State. Here is the online form (http://contact-us.state.gov/cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=qk*MUpak&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD05NCw5NCZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnB fY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmc F9wYWdlPTE!) (and on left side, there are phone numbers and addresses).
Always remember that you are a free citizen of a free country who is working in US because there exists documented need for your skills in US.
Good luck and I hope your visa is granted in due time ...
more...
fromnaija
12-12 02:20 PM
What if i leave it just like that?
That, my dear friend, is courting disaster at a later date and would be very unwise.
That, my dear friend, is courting disaster at a later date and would be very unwise.
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siva008
02-24 09:07 PM
Thank you nousername, any suggested Attorney please advice
more...
simplistik
03-06 06:54 PM
heh... the problem w/ this is... all the sites seem to be influenced by one another... and progressively got better... :( you all should've kept your stuff under wraps until the end
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prince_waiting
12-12 12:31 PM
Montgomery - Huntsville = 190 miles
Montgomery - Mobile = 170 miles
Montgomery - Birmingham = 90 miles
So effectively Montgomery is the center point and as suggested by cooldude** is a good meeting place.
If the meet is convened in Birmingham then it is 260 miles one way distance for Mobile effectively dissuading any Mobile members from active participation.
Your take on the meeting place guys.
Looks like a toss up between Birmingham and Montgomery.
Montgomery - Mobile = 170 miles
Montgomery - Birmingham = 90 miles
So effectively Montgomery is the center point and as suggested by cooldude** is a good meeting place.
If the meet is convened in Birmingham then it is 260 miles one way distance for Mobile effectively dissuading any Mobile members from active participation.
Your take on the meeting place guys.
Looks like a toss up between Birmingham and Montgomery.
more...
shsk
07-19 10:51 PM
Hi,
I am planning to change my residence after 2 months. By that time my AOS would be applied. Will it be a problem if I change my residence (different city but same state) after AOS is applied?
:confused:
Signed up for 50$ recurring
I am planning to change my residence after 2 months. By that time my AOS would be applied. Will it be a problem if I change my residence (different city but same state) after AOS is applied?
:confused:
Signed up for 50$ recurring
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coopheal
03-15 03:16 AM
Why should I contribute?
I'm not going to do.
For this I'll get red dots, and will be banned.
I do not care.
If you don�t want to contribute, then don�t. There is no need to brag about it.
You are not doing any noble cause by not contributing.
IV volunteers have every right to ask for contribution on various forums.
Least you can do is not confront them on contribution.
I'm not going to do.
For this I'll get red dots, and will be banned.
I do not care.
If you don�t want to contribute, then don�t. There is no need to brag about it.
You are not doing any noble cause by not contributing.
IV volunteers have every right to ask for contribution on various forums.
Least you can do is not confront them on contribution.
more...
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sabbygirl99
03-28 04:42 PM
:D ....an immigration lawyer (anna baker in Rajiv S Khanna's office):
Question # 1:
From me:
I am currently on a work visa (H1) and I know that I can maintain it even if I work part-time. I want to go back to school as a full time student. I just want to check that I can maintain a legal status as a part-time worker and a full-time student. What are my options?
From Anna:
According to Mr. Khanna it should not be a problem if you hold a part-time H-1 and enroll in fulltime studies while being on H-1. You should further discuss the university's requirements with the foreign student office at the school. You cannot hold both F-1 and H-1 status.
Question # 2:
From me:
I wanted to know whether going to school full time and working part time on an H1 would jeopardize my green card application. It is currently pending at the Philly Backlog Center.
From Anna:
According to Mr. Khanna it should not have an effect.
:D ....an admissions officer of one of the schools:
It is possible to study while in H-1 status, however, it usually is not the primary purpose for being in the U.S. I have had two students who have done this, one was a PhD who only had one semester of coursework before beginning the dissertation phase and has since applied for and received permanent residency. The other student was on H-1B, was getting married to a U.S. citizen and applying for permanent residency as well, so neither case would really apply to you.
I sometimes advise students against remaining in H-1 status unless there is a compelling reason to do so. If you do remain in that status you are required to still be working for your employer, which can be difficult due to the demands of the degree program here at XXXXX. XXXXX is a full-time program, so you would not be permitted to do the program on a part-time basis in order to allow for your work commitments. Also, there is a 6 year limit on H-1's. Technically, study in H-1B should be incidental to your primary purpose for being in the U.S.
Again, if you and your employer determine that you will remain in H-1B status please let me know, otherwise we must process a change of status for you to F-1 or if you are planning on leaving the U.S. during the summer, we can process and initial status I-20 for you and you will be required to apply for an F-1 visa at a U.S. Embassy/Consulate, before returning to being the program at XXXXX.
:D ....From another admissions officer. [She keeps saying the same thing no matter how many times I ask her...I'm about to ask her for a Yes/No answer as politely as I can :) ]
You can attend school on an H-1b if school is incidental to your H-1b status
Hope this helps shed some light for you.
Question # 1:
From me:
I am currently on a work visa (H1) and I know that I can maintain it even if I work part-time. I want to go back to school as a full time student. I just want to check that I can maintain a legal status as a part-time worker and a full-time student. What are my options?
From Anna:
According to Mr. Khanna it should not be a problem if you hold a part-time H-1 and enroll in fulltime studies while being on H-1. You should further discuss the university's requirements with the foreign student office at the school. You cannot hold both F-1 and H-1 status.
Question # 2:
From me:
I wanted to know whether going to school full time and working part time on an H1 would jeopardize my green card application. It is currently pending at the Philly Backlog Center.
From Anna:
According to Mr. Khanna it should not have an effect.
:D ....an admissions officer of one of the schools:
It is possible to study while in H-1 status, however, it usually is not the primary purpose for being in the U.S. I have had two students who have done this, one was a PhD who only had one semester of coursework before beginning the dissertation phase and has since applied for and received permanent residency. The other student was on H-1B, was getting married to a U.S. citizen and applying for permanent residency as well, so neither case would really apply to you.
I sometimes advise students against remaining in H-1 status unless there is a compelling reason to do so. If you do remain in that status you are required to still be working for your employer, which can be difficult due to the demands of the degree program here at XXXXX. XXXXX is a full-time program, so you would not be permitted to do the program on a part-time basis in order to allow for your work commitments. Also, there is a 6 year limit on H-1's. Technically, study in H-1B should be incidental to your primary purpose for being in the U.S.
Again, if you and your employer determine that you will remain in H-1B status please let me know, otherwise we must process a change of status for you to F-1 or if you are planning on leaving the U.S. during the summer, we can process and initial status I-20 for you and you will be required to apply for an F-1 visa at a U.S. Embassy/Consulate, before returning to being the program at XXXXX.
:D ....From another admissions officer. [She keeps saying the same thing no matter how many times I ask her...I'm about to ask her for a Yes/No answer as politely as I can :) ]
You can attend school on an H-1b if school is incidental to your H-1b status
Hope this helps shed some light for you.
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diptam
01-16 12:45 PM
indyanguy,
Sorry to see that USCIS is bugging you. I think i know you from the "Letter to Ombudsman" forum ... I also got a useless RFE but not for experience letter, so you may use my experience letter as benchmark.
I asked my friend ( who is a Project manager at my old Company) to getted it notarized ( what we call attested at India) from the local Bank. The Bank officer will just make sure the undersigned is the actual signee... No company HR will do all the crap , so its better to go via the Friend/Ex-coworker route ... Unless you get GC , you need to maintain old relationships :) anyway , here you go ....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
May 05, 2007
RE: XXX YYY
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
This letter is to verify that Mr. XXX YYY was employed by GGGGGG as a full-time Software Engineer from August 1998 to October 2004.During this period he worked 40 Hours per week.
During the period of employment at GGGGGGG Mr. XXX YYY�s duty were to Plan, design, develop, test and document application software using XML, JSP,EJB,JDBC,ASP,VB,COMObjects,XSL,JavaServlets,Ja vascripts,DHTML,Linux,CSS,Domino & Lotus Notes,.Net,ASP.Net,SQL Server 2000,WebLogic,Websphere with ORACLE database in Windows and Unix environments.
Mr. XXX YYY has always rendered his services with the highest degree of responsibility and professionalism and we wish Mr. YYY all the best in his future endeavors.
Sincerely,
_____________________________
Mr. CCC DDDD
Project Manager
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks.
What is the difference between an affidavit and a letter? Affidavit is one that is not on a letter head and a letter is the one on a letter head or it depends on who is writing the letter?
Does 1 each serve the purpose?
With the initial packet, I had sent
1 letter from Company A (By the director on letterhead)
2 letters from Company B (1 from colleague on letterhead and 1 from HR on letterhead)
Sorry to see that USCIS is bugging you. I think i know you from the "Letter to Ombudsman" forum ... I also got a useless RFE but not for experience letter, so you may use my experience letter as benchmark.
I asked my friend ( who is a Project manager at my old Company) to getted it notarized ( what we call attested at India) from the local Bank. The Bank officer will just make sure the undersigned is the actual signee... No company HR will do all the crap , so its better to go via the Friend/Ex-coworker route ... Unless you get GC , you need to maintain old relationships :) anyway , here you go ....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
May 05, 2007
RE: XXX YYY
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
This letter is to verify that Mr. XXX YYY was employed by GGGGGG as a full-time Software Engineer from August 1998 to October 2004.During this period he worked 40 Hours per week.
During the period of employment at GGGGGGG Mr. XXX YYY�s duty were to Plan, design, develop, test and document application software using XML, JSP,EJB,JDBC,ASP,VB,COMObjects,XSL,JavaServlets,Ja vascripts,DHTML,Linux,CSS,Domino & Lotus Notes,.Net,ASP.Net,SQL Server 2000,WebLogic,Websphere with ORACLE database in Windows and Unix environments.
Mr. XXX YYY has always rendered his services with the highest degree of responsibility and professionalism and we wish Mr. YYY all the best in his future endeavors.
Sincerely,
_____________________________
Mr. CCC DDDD
Project Manager
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks.
What is the difference between an affidavit and a letter? Affidavit is one that is not on a letter head and a letter is the one on a letter head or it depends on who is writing the letter?
Does 1 each serve the purpose?
With the initial packet, I had sent
1 letter from Company A (By the director on letterhead)
2 letters from Company B (1 from colleague on letterhead and 1 from HR on letterhead)
more...
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ca_immigrant
05-19 06:44 PM
I am also travelling with the family in June for a couple of months !
the murthy link and this thread over all is helpful !
Our company's lawyer mentioned that if the 485 gets approved while abroad then when I come back I just tell the officer at the entry point that I was out and do not have the card in hand. So I enter using AP.
I also asked him (and in another thread here ) if I can have the card mailed to India by a friend and he said yes, I can do that if I am comfortable with it.
On a different note , one other person mentioned to me that one has to be in the US when the 485 application is approved or else they can reject the application, but that does not sound true and nor I have heard anything like that from the lawyer or in any of the forums !!
the murthy link and this thread over all is helpful !
Our company's lawyer mentioned that if the 485 gets approved while abroad then when I come back I just tell the officer at the entry point that I was out and do not have the card in hand. So I enter using AP.
I also asked him (and in another thread here ) if I can have the card mailed to India by a friend and he said yes, I can do that if I am comfortable with it.
On a different note , one other person mentioned to me that one has to be in the US when the 485 application is approved or else they can reject the application, but that does not sound true and nor I have heard anything like that from the lawyer or in any of the forums !!
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smiledentist
10-25 03:40 PM
Thanks, I am not sure if it applies to only H1 or even to I 140.
more...
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wandmaker
11-05 10:43 AM
......
I want to convert this H1b application to Premium Processing now, that is after responding to the RFE. My current company's lawyer claims that we cannot convert to Premium Processing after an RFE is issued and answered. Is this is true? Can an application be converted to PP only if it does not receive an RFE? I thought it can be converted anytime...please advice.
You need to send in the I-907, please read section "Premium Processing Service for Form I-129 -Upgrades for Pending Cases" on Page 2 of Download Instructions PDF USCIS - Request for Premium Processing Service (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=79ef78264614d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)
...
If you have already filed Form I-129, and you wish to requestPremium Processing Service, file Form I-907 with the ServiceCenter where Form I-129 is pending. Include a copy of FormI-797, Notice of Action, or a copy of the transfer notice, ifapplicable, showing the location of the relating petition. Toensure that Form I-907 is matched up with the pending FormI-129, you must completely answer Questions 1 through 5 inPart 2 of Form I-907. If this information is not provided, theForm I-907 will be rejected. The Premium Processingaddresses for each service center that handles Form I-129 islisted in the Form I-129 filing chart
...
I want to convert this H1b application to Premium Processing now, that is after responding to the RFE. My current company's lawyer claims that we cannot convert to Premium Processing after an RFE is issued and answered. Is this is true? Can an application be converted to PP only if it does not receive an RFE? I thought it can be converted anytime...please advice.
You need to send in the I-907, please read section "Premium Processing Service for Form I-129 -Upgrades for Pending Cases" on Page 2 of Download Instructions PDF USCIS - Request for Premium Processing Service (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=79ef78264614d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)
...
If you have already filed Form I-129, and you wish to requestPremium Processing Service, file Form I-907 with the ServiceCenter where Form I-129 is pending. Include a copy of FormI-797, Notice of Action, or a copy of the transfer notice, ifapplicable, showing the location of the relating petition. Toensure that Form I-907 is matched up with the pending FormI-129, you must completely answer Questions 1 through 5 inPart 2 of Form I-907. If this information is not provided, theForm I-907 will be rejected. The Premium Processingaddresses for each service center that handles Form I-129 islisted in the Form I-129 filing chart
...
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Ramba
10-17 05:28 PM
Hi,
My LCA Job title is "Computer and Information Systems Manager" , O-net Job Code 11-3021.00. Can I take a job of "Computer Systems Engineers/Architects" , O-net Job Code 15-1099.02. Is it not considered as similar occupation?
Thanks,
In conservative view, though both are in same field, both are not similar occupation becuse one is "engineer" and other is "manager". Engineer skills and responsibilites and duties are different than manager. So it will not qualify to AC21 portability. For similar occupation classification, both should be in same family in Onet or it should have first 2 numbers in the code should be same.
My LCA Job title is "Computer and Information Systems Manager" , O-net Job Code 11-3021.00. Can I take a job of "Computer Systems Engineers/Architects" , O-net Job Code 15-1099.02. Is it not considered as similar occupation?
Thanks,
In conservative view, though both are in same field, both are not similar occupation becuse one is "engineer" and other is "manager". Engineer skills and responsibilites and duties are different than manager. So it will not qualify to AC21 portability. For similar occupation classification, both should be in same family in Onet or it should have first 2 numbers in the code should be same.
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ArkBird
06-08 01:53 AM
u got it all wrong there, there is goin to be an h1b increase, the business community wants it, they'll get it wether anyone likes it or not and with that will come all those durbin/ron hira amendments and all this will happen b4 the next h1b date so its a matter of time b4 it all happens again
Could not agree more with you on that... Devil is gone. Now the Deep Sea!!!
Love my(our) life.....
Could not agree more with you on that... Devil is gone. Now the Deep Sea!!!
Love my(our) life.....
sonia_sd
02-11 09:16 PM
I just signed the petition
AjP
July 27th, 2005, 11:43 AM
Freddy slow down, I can do anything at work, was thinking work on it after I get home and you................ LOL great work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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